Back For Profit Trading

Back For Profit Review

Let me start off by saying that, “Back for Profit” is by far the best trading method for In-Running horse races that I’ve ever seen.

The guy who runs it, Andrew Banthorpe, is a fantastic guy and a real joy to work with.

More importantly he is head and shoulders above anyone else I’ve ever dealt with when it comes to experience and know-how for trading horses In-Running. (IR)

His race reading ability is off the charts. I’ve watched hundreds of his trades via video link and been on the phone to him while we were both live trading the same race. He is astonishingly good and wins an absolute fortune.

It’s a measure of his character that he doesn’t post up screenshots on Twitter showing his wins. From a marketing/self-promotion point of view, he is miles behind other traders who offer training material and courses.

If he had a different personality, he could have people queuing up to join Back for Profit, (B4P) just by showing his trades each day. He would be inundated with requests to join, but the guy is so modest it’s ridiculous.

Below is a link to the Back for Profit website but to view the page you have to use the password: drainrun10

Back For Profit Website

Password: drainrun10

That will get into the private page that has a 10% discount already applied to the joining fee.

Other Courses I’ve Tried

Just so you know I’m qualified to judge a trading course when I see one, here is some history to my quest for trading success.

When I initially started Betfair trading (Jan 2019) it was scalping pre-race (horses) and like many new traders, wet behind the ears, I spent money on some of Caan Berry’s training stuff.

Then (April 2019) I started to learn IR after buying an IR eBook from Tony Hargraves (TH) otherwise known as Badger. It’s a good book and with it you get access to the accompanying videos. I learnt a lot from it.

If you’ve never tried IR and would like to, you could do a lot worse than buy it. I’ve also attended a 1:1 session with Tony at this house and sat next to him and watched him trade live all afternoon.

The second IR course I tried was the Hunting 4 Profit (HFP) one day training course. The HFP method compared to TH and B4P is like trying to compare Apples & Oranges. The H4P method is IR yes, but it’s a totally different methodology. So no comparison would be fair. I’m sure it works well for those that master it, but I wasn’t prepared to give it the time.

The average newbie trader, myself included, desperately goes from one method to another trying to find success and has been on more courses than Arnold Palmer. (That gives my age away, should have said Rory McIlroy)

Arnold Palmer
Golfing Legend: Arnold Palmer

That is part of the reason why I didn’t even admit I’d signed up to B4P initially. It smacks of a lack of discipline, and the work ethic required to be successful, if you just keep chopping and changing.

Trading is like a training merry go round for newbies, every course you go on you meet people you’ve met before on other courses. That’s what keeps the marketers in business, there is always a steady stream of losing traders desperate to try what their selling in search of the holy grail.

About the only course I’ve not tried is Steve Howes but he is a pre-race trader and I’m a confirmed IR trader now. To be fair to him most of what I’ve heard about him is positive, but I can’t comment on his stuff.

So what about B4P?

I truly believe that Back for Profit is the best kept secret in the trading world, mainly because Andrew is terrible at marketing!

B4P Trading In Running

He has the best IR product but the worst marketing strategy. (By his own admission he doesn’t really have a marketing strategy)

This Reviews Parameters

I’ve spoken to Andrew (B4P) to check how much detail I could go into with the review, and in fairness to him I’m not going to “reveal all”.

The chances of me getting to his level in the two- and a-bit months I’ve been with him would be impossible. So I couldn’t tell you all the stuff he knows if I tried.

I will though endeavour to give you a flavour of the B4P method and concentrate of some of the key differences to other IR methods I’ve tried and why I ultimately believe it is so good.

Who is/isn’t the B4P course for?

I would say that if you are a total Betfair trading novice and you’ve never even traded before then this probably isn’t for you. It assumes some level of trading knowledge.*

I would think that if you’ve only ever traded pre-race and have some knowledge of the ladders and trading basics then you could certainly try this.

A pre-race only trader would need to work harder initially and watch lots of race replays etc to pick up the signals that IR traders typically look for. On a positive note you won’t have the bad habits to unlearn that a lot of us have!

It would be better if you’d not only traded before but tried IR trading previously as having some race reading experience will certainly speed up the process.

Most IR traders have experience but just lack the consistency needed to succeed. I’m confident that Andrew could sort you out if you are prepared to take on board his methods and work hard.

Who is it not for?

This is not for anyone who can’t put in a reasonable amount of screen time each week. When it comes to any trading method, it’s quicker and easier to pick it up if you can trade at least 3 or 4 days a week.

Weekend warriors who work F/T and then try to fit trading in at the weekend will struggle to get the consistent screen time needed. Most weekenders struggle trying to trade even at the weekends when the other half is nagging them to go shopping or visit the in-laws.

If you do work F/T but your shift pattern would allow or you get home at a reasonable time each day and could commit to weekends and maybe a couple of evenings in the week, that would be fine.

You can sign up for as many training courses as you like, but there is no substitute for screen time.

So what do you get?

As soon as you’ve signed up to the academy, you’ll get access to all the online training material. There is a lot and I know you’ll probably be as impatient as I and every other new member is but take your time and read all of it carefully and make a start on the videos.

There are a lot of them!

You will get the option to download the “Bet Angel Servants” that Andrew has devised. I strongly recommend that you use them.

Early days Andrew will speak to you 1:1 on the phone and make sure you have the servants set up correctly. The reason Andrew only takes on a very limited number of new students each month (normally 4 or 5 max) is because they all need extra help in the early days and weeks.

You get full access to the B4P Telegram room. It is a nice small group and it’s terrific. There are the established members who are really successful, and the newer members like me. The old hands are very friendly and are always willing to offer help and advice if Andrew isn’t online for any reason.

Most new members like me have tried various training methods previously and we all have very similar flaws to our trading. You can ask anything you like in the group they really won’t mind.

When you join the £295 fee covers 3 months free access to the Telegram group then its £24.99 per month. The information Andrew (and others) put in there each day is worth its weight in gold.

*Please note that due to COVID-19 the £495 package is not currently available. To be honest though the £295 package is the one I went for.

Training Material

The training material in the academy has these main headings.

Introduction, Trading Set up, Bet Angel (BA) settings & servants, Race Selection, Race Reading, Entry Lay trades/Back trades, Exit trades, Updates and latest videos section and so on and so on.

There is also a library of stuff for each and every racecourse in UK & Ireland. Here Andrew gives trading information for each track. This is worth the joining fee on its own.

Entry Lay Trades

In this section he explains the reasons for entering a trade and those crucial entry points. He does the same for Back to Lay trades as well and both sections have lots of videos showing real examples of exactly what he is looking for and why. The videos are all recordings of his screen as he is trading, and he talks you through his thought process.

Updates and Latest Videos

Often, he’ll do a video in the morning looking at the days racing and things to look out for. He also posts new videos on a regular basis with trades he has done that day. So you might trade the 2.00 pm race and a few hours later you can watch him trade it.

This is good when you’ve done the race yourself and its fresh in your mind, to see what he is thinking as they are going round.

You can compare your entry point to his which is really beneficial.

I have recorded my screen a few times when I’m trading and you can share the video privately with him so he can review it and give you feedback.

One to One Help

Every member has the option to book a one to one call with Andrew whenever they feel they need one.

I enjoy our chats even when I get a bollocking! (He’s from Yorkshire so he tells it like it is.) The main thing is, when you talk to him on the phone you can tell how passionate he is about trading and how much he wants you to succeed.

It’s not a case of “I’ve had your money so go away and don’t bother”. He really wants you to do well.

Back for Profit Methods

OK so here is an outline to some of the key things about B4P which stood out for me.

Number One

Safety, Safety, Safety.

There are many things that make the B4P method safe and in fairness to Andrew I’m not going to share them. Suffice to say that B4P only looks for safe and secure trades.

Where this differs for me against other methods I’ve tried is there’s a clearly set out plan. A clear set of circumstances that Andrew teaches you to look out for, before you enter a trade.

This means you might watch 5 or 10 races without entering a trade on any of them. You need patience for this, but patience will get its rewards.

Also because of the B4P race selection criteria there are lots of races we don’t even watch.

The whole method is wait and watch, wait and watch and when all the things he is looking for come together then, bang he pulls the trigger. The difference is though that for him that one trade will equal a week’s wages for most people.

Number Two

Race Selection Criteria.

This is the one aspect of the training that was the biggest eye opener for me. It deals will the “make up ” of the race regarding the prices of the horses and why some markets are safer to trade IR than others.

Number Tree

Bet Angel Servants

There is an old stock market saying, “Cut losses short, let profits run”. Overall that’s great advice.

To put it in IR terms it means that if you are trading a 3-mile chase at Wincanton and you place a manual lay bet on a horse and the price is drifting slowly don’t be too keen to take a green, leave it a bit longer to try and maximise your profits. Alternatively, if the price starts to turn against you, trade out instantly and take a small red.

Now I used to get that right most of the time. The problem I had with IR though was I would occasionally misjudge when to take a green and sometimes by being greedy I ended up turning what should have been a decent green into an horrendous red. Maybe because the favourite had fallen or something.

B4P has developed a great set of BA Servants which takes away most of these decisions from you.

Again, I’m not giving details on how these work but they have increased my level of consistency by a long way.

Are there races where I could have won more without using them? Yes of course but it’s the ones that you get wrong which are the main problem and these servants take away the chance of you getting too greedy.

Steady consistent profits are the key to this.

Number Four

Help and support

The Telegram room as I’ve already mentioned is great. To see what Andrew puts in it each day about the days racing, the tracks and what to watch out for is trading gold.

So there is the group help and support which is a broad-brush approach and then there is individual help. My biggest problem has never been that I don’t win enough on winning trades my main problem has always been that I lose way too much on losing ones.

B4P in general is helping me get those under control, and Andrew in particular is working with me personally trying to get inside my head.

Back for Profit: Summary

I’ve only been with B4P for two and a half months and I know 100% that this method offers me the very best chance of IR success of anything I’ve ever tried. I’m not there yet and lockdown has stalled my progress but I’m super confident going forward.

This method is better, safer and more structured than anything I’ve tried before. If I can’t make this work, then I will never be long term profitable.


If you are looking for instant trading success you won’t get it with B4P the same as you won’t get it anywhere else. Whichever method of trading you try it takes time to learn, hard work, discipline and screen time.

Even with my previous IR experience I needed several months before the penny dropped.

Discount Code

Because I believe in his training academy so strongly, I’ve tried to get Andrew to promote himself a bit more.

To that end I’ve got an agreement from him to offer a “10% Discount Code” for any of my blog readers or twitter followers who join.

So to get 10% off use the link:

Back For Profit Discount Code


10% Off

The price of the training is £295.00 and that includes 3 months total access to the Telegram room(s) and one to one coaching phone calls with Andrew.

So save £29.50 by using the drainrun10 code

Back For Profit Discount Code

There is an initial sign-up cost, that gives you 3 months free access to the Telegram group. After that first 3 months the Telegram group and ongoing support from Andrew etc costs just £24.99 pm.

Sign-Up Page Here

Just as an aside, Andrew donates 10% of the sign up fee to the Racing Welfare charity.

Racing Welfare Racing Charity


As I’ve said Andrew is far too modest to post up screen shots of his profits each day and constantly undersells himself.

So as a bonus and because I believe in his methods so much, I’m prepared to talk to anyone via Zoom who is genuinely interested but has some questions they’d like to ask before taking the plunge.

Contact me by leaving a comment at the bottom of this post or via Twitter. @DrainRun

*I mentioned that this isn’t for anyone who hasn’t ever traded before and has zero experience. If you fit into that category and would like to have a chat before taking the plunge in to ANY type of trading, I’d be happy to give you some of my time, free of charge.

Why would I do that? Well I lost loads and spent lots of money on training stuff, not all of it wisely in my first year of trading, so I’d be happy to help anyone else avoid those rookie mistakes.

Use the comments section below to get in touch initially.

Is the £295.00 good value?

Well let me just say this, if you choose to ignore all the lessons that you’ll learn from Andrew and continue as you have in the past then it would be a complete waste of your money. (Even if it cost £10)

On the other hand if you are prepared to take on board the lessons and fully embrace Andrews methods and you become a consistently profitable trader then £295 (£265.50 with the discount) is ridiculously cheap.


Just a post script for anyone who is already a member of the B4P Telegram trading group and is thinking “There isn’t anyone in the group called David Griffiths”

Well it’s a long story but my screen name on Telegram is “Will Barrow”.


Purely for the benefit of any cynics reading this, let me state that Back for Profit does not have an affiliate scheme. (Read my full affiliate disclosure policy here)


  • Theo

    Good evening. I’ve read all your progress reports and ive found it really interesting! I’m a total newbie to trading. I cant make my mind up whether to go down the path of pre or in-running.

    If we could get in touch for a chat I’d appreciate that a lot!!

    Kind regards

  • david makepeace

    Hi there, I’ve just finished watching the video. It’s so encouraging to see your progress, well done.
    1) does your liability on L2B change as the day progresses? i.e. race 1 = £25 liabilty if it wins, then Race 2 liability increases? and so on and so forth. OR do you stick to the initial Race 1 liability per race for the whole day? Some races come thick and fast on busy days, and it would be quite difficult to re-calculate your revised liability

    • runlikeadrain

      Hi David,

      The liability does change after every race I trade but the software does it for me. I use Bet Angel and it allows me to set liability to % of bank and it calculates it for me every single time I place a trade. So if I traded 4 races in a day my liability would be different for each race.

  • Tim


    This is a very good review I have also really enjoyed reading about your journey.

    Is it possible to have a chat? That would be greatly appreciated.

    • runlikeadrain

      Yes no problem Tim. I will email you from my personal email address (which is a one so check your spam if you don’t see it) and we could perhaps arrange to have a chat on Zoom or similar.

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